NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/9126

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 7.9 KB

Path: dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!mfmail!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Shaun C. Murray)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.games,alt.sys.amiga.demos,in,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: AB3D II beats Quake....
Date: 21 Mar 1996 18:12:28 GMT
Organization: Micro Focus, Newbury UK
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4is66c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scm.mfltd.co.uk
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>
>What sucks++ is that AT is not *capable* to make innovative custom chips
>(they can say it's not possible, but I know that every console producer makes
>custom chips).

Every console producer also has more money, more people working on it and more
time to do it in. AT have none of those advantages.

>So, being not capable to make them, the PowerAmiga is destined
>to be another PC clone, with just a different CPU (PowerPC: btw, I bought a
>book and studied it, and I'm very disappointed: IT SUCKS, all the other RISCs
>are better, starting from the old and cheap Transputers) and a different OS.

Yes it will be a PC clone with a different CPU. You don't seem to get it.
Hardware no longer matters anymore. Coding in assembler is not required
anymore. The machines are fast enough that you can code in a fairly portable
language such C++ and use a game API. This is exactly what Microsft, Apple,
Sony, Sega et al want people to do. You should want it too as it makes porting
your game to other platforms a lot easier and means that when I upgrade my
graphics card to a faster chip with a faster blitter or now with hardware
sprites, the change gets automatically picked up. This is the gist of RTG.

Of course we may lose features like the copper as I don't think any graphics
hardware out there has it yet but that can be worked around anyway when  you
have a fast CPU and fast graphics chip.

>But for me, a games maker, the OS is not important for the final software.

It will be on the PowerAmiga. It's the most important part in fact. The OS's
ability to provide a stable game API so that you can get the best out of
whatever hardware you have installed is of prime concern. If AT want you to
write a good game, you should be pressuring them into what should be in the
game API. Get the specs for Microsofts DirectAPI for an idea.

IMHO, getting close to the Microsoft API would be a good idea for AT as it
would make games programmers lives a lot easier.

>
>It seems that AT said << *everything* must be done with the OS, direct
hardware
>programming will not be allowed anymore >>. I never expected such an unwise
>(I dont say "silly", because I must think they just aren't capable to make
>better, for budget problems) decision about the new Amiga management.
>I recall A1200 and CD32 market died because some "C++ programmers" or
managers
>didn't allow direct hardware programming. Cool ignorant people.

It's a very sensible idea indeed though I it would be better if AT could have
come up with a game API instead of the slow OS calls we have. Something like
rtg.library?

Coding games in 68K assembler and directly accessing AGA registers means that
they won't have any game software on the PowerAmiga when it's released. If
programmers coded in C++ and used the OS calls, all they need do is recompile
the source for the PowerAmiga and they have software.

>If AT wants this shit from PowerAmiga, then IMHO the *last* Amiga will be the
>680x0 and AGA based ones. The PowerAmiga will be a PC with just another CPU.

The thing that makes the Amiga viable is the OS. No other machine runs with so
little resources at such speed. The chips are secondary. Noone cares whats
under the hood these days. They just want good fast software for as little
cost as possible. This is what the Amiga does best and always has.

There are certain applications such as video that the Amiga does well because
of the custom hardware but they are pretty niche. If you really want that I'd
rather have the AGA hardware on an optional card or a replacement that allows
the video features of the Amiga. Personally I can live without 15Khz screens
though it would be nice to play games on the big telly.

>I bought the PowerPC book (105 US dollars!) because I was enthusiast to code
>for the PowerAmiga, now I got the sensation it'll be like programming a PC.

You should have bought K&R. A lot cheaper and of more use. Programming in raw
PowerPC code is a waste of time and resources unless you're writing very low
level hardware drivers.


>The A1000/A500 and A2000 were dream computers IMO because of their custom
>chips and architecture, not because of the lame 1.0/1.1/1.2 OS.

'were' is the operative word. Come the 90's, the OS is of more importance.

>I'll keep my 68060 Amiga for *development*, I'll create and test algorithms,
>graphics, sounds on my Amiga, but if this PowerAmiga is that anonymous
>machine, I'll support only old Amigas and, before I support a PowerAmiga with
>no market, I'll prefer to support PC; the same thing with a different CPU and
>an alive market.

You just don't get it. Learn a high level language and write a generic game
API and you can support all three markets with a minimum of custom work. This
way the PC work funds development on the PowerAmiga until it can take over the
world with it's obvious bennefits in it's lean, mean, fast OS.

I write code, ok it's not games, that works on Windows 3.x, OS2, UNIX, Windows
95, Windows NT, DOS and if we had a COBOL compiler on the Amiga, the Amiga.
For me that's a sixth of the development time to reach 6 different markets. I
could just write for Windows95 as that's probably the biggest market and make
money but I can make more by writing cross platform code.

Single platform development is very costly, especially when the single
platform has as small a market share as the Amiga. The Amiga being as close as
possible in abilities to the PC makes cross platform development more
economically viable.

>I never believed that I would have thought this, but now I must judge real
>facts: the PowerAmiga will born with much more *bad* problems than any
>quality.

The only possible problem will be AT's support of developers by the sound of
it as they are going to have to convince them of the benefits of using an API
rather than banging hardware. They also need to provide a decent API of
course.

>Who will support such an anonymous abort? If I wanna program the PC hardware,
>I program the PC. The PowerPC CPU *sucks bigtime*, if I've to learn another
>CPU, why should I learn PowerPC and not 80x86 that gives some food back?

Jeez. Answer is not to learn any hardware. Learn how to write cross platform
code!

>
>I miss the true Amigas.

I miss peeking and pokeing C64's but I wouldn't want to try and make a living
doing something similar to that today.

>
>Well,from the deepest of my heart: FUCK OFF AT, you made it all become
useless.

Much as I appreciate your programming on the Amiga, an attitude such as that
will not help AT at all. If you think their plan sucks, talk to them. They
need as much input as possible from developers if they are to develop a decent
game developers strategy. They need to know what features you would like in a
game programmers API.

Remember though, you currently won't get rich programming on just the Amiga.
You need to diversify onto other platforms Fabio. Let the PC finance
development on the Amiga, how's that for you 'ideals'.


btw. AFAIK there are two games written in COBOL, Tic-Tac-Toe and Space
Invaders shipped with our compiler. One of these days I'll get around to
finishing off a Galaxians clone in COBOL just to say 'Nyah, Nyah Ne Nyah Nyah'
to the people who say COBOL is only for payroll programs.  ;-)

--
Shaun C. Murray                        | e-mail: [e-mail]
Micro Focus Ltd, Newbury, UK.          | www:    http://www.mfltd.co.uk/~scm/